Top Artists – Peter Gabriel

Letter of the Week – “I looked at the speakers in wonderment, goosebumps down my legs”

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Peter Gabriel Available Now

Our good customer Michel wrote to tell us how much he liked the White Hot Peter Gabriel (3) Hot Stamper pressing we just sent him. (I have edited some of the text but mostly it came to me this way.)

Hi Tom,

Knowledge is everything and good ears don’t lie!

Side 2 of Peter Gabriel 3 is the side that I really like. I have had many pressings and many 12″ 45s made in the UK and a few 12″ 33s from the US.

Over the years I kept searching for good sound, but I never got there apparently. I simply stopped listening to the music. Maybe a Biko 12″ once in a while, but the LP never cut it. Not even the supercool packaging of the Classic along with the fancy clarity handmade super vinyl profile II. Now that’s a mouthful!

So in comes the 3+ side 2 that I just received. I played side two first.

It was all over.

I looked at the speakers in wonderment, goosebumps down my legs.

I was looking right into the music.

The separation was through the roof, everything in its proper proportion.

The naturalness of it all was astounding. The highs crystal clear, the mids all there, the bass punchy and tight.

The whole thing demanding to be turned up to maximum volume.

I play it over and over again, smiling all the way. This is the shit!

So then I put the Classic on. [Cue the sound of a needle sliding across a record.]

I could not keep turning it up, as the sound got worse on the top end. Their version, don’t know if it was BG, is whacked out.

Things are not in proper proportion in the soundfield. Too much and not enough kind of thing.

Why do they have to f*ck with the tape so much, as if they know better?

Michel

Michel,

Judging by the enthusiasm of your letter, I could not be happier to learn of the joy our Hot Stamper pressing of the album has brought you.

Good ears don’t lie, as you say, and we take that to mean that you’re hearing what we heard when we played side two of your copy, the side that won the shootout. We agree — it is a thrill to hear a record sound that good.

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Nursery Cryme on Classic Records – What System Can Make It Sound Good?

Hot Stamper Pressings of Genesis Albums Available Now

Sonic Grade: F

The Classic Heavy Vinyl pressing from 2000 is a smeary, lifeless mess next to the best early tan label British pressings. No Classic pressing of any of the Genesis albums that we’ve played sounded right to us.

The Peter Gabriel albums they remastered were just as bad. All of them earned a grade of F. We made no effort to do listings for most of them because they all were bad sounding, and bad sounding in the same way.

If I were to try to “reverse engineer” the sound of a system that could play this record and compensate for its many faults, I would look for a system that was thick, dark and fat, with added richness and a heaping portion of euphonic tube colorations.

I know that sound. I had a stereo in the 90s with many of those same shortcomings, but of course I hadn’t a clue about any of that. Back then, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. I needed to put together a system with a lot more “Hi-fi” and a lot less “My-fi,” a process that took many years and a great deal of effort.

I’m glad to say things are different now.

What to Listen For

As a general rule, this Heavy Vinyl pressing will fall short in some or all of the following areas when played head to head against the vintage pressings we offer:

Further Reading

The sonic signature of the modern Heavy Vinyl Classical reissue in five words: diffuse, washed out, veiled, and vague.

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Helpful Stamper Information You Can Use – Episode 108

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Genesis Available Now

British Pressing? Check.

Pink Label? Check.

Sound Quality?  Side One:: 1+ (dubby). Side Two: NFG (no good).

What could have possibly gone wrong?

Apparently something went wrong, but exactly what, nobody really knows.

And if for some reason somebody actually believes they know what went wrong, we tell them that that kind of thinking is detrimental to whatever success they hope to achieve in finding better sounding records, if our experience over the last fifty years has any bearing.

We don’t know it all and we’ve never pretended to. All our knowledge is provisional. We may not be the smartest guys in the room, but we’re sure as hell smart enough to know that much.

If somehow we did know it all, there would be no need for the two hundred entries in our live and learn section about all the mistakes we’ve made in trying to understand record pressings at the sonic level.

We take a different approach to searching out the best sounding pressings. Instead of reading about them — who made them, how they were made, where they were made, all that sort of thing — we instead devoted our efforts to cleaning and playing them, so that we could make our own judgments about the sound and the music we heard.

Our experiments, conducted using the shootout process painstakingly developed over the course of the last twenty years, produce all the data we need: the winners, the losers, and the ranking for all the records in-between.

Free Stamper Info

By my count this is the 108th stamper sheet we have posted on The Skeptical Audiophile.

In the case of this title, these are what we would call “bad stampers for Genesis’s 1973 Prog album Selling England by the Pound (a record we rarely have in stock because the best stampers are just too hard to find, at least on copies in audiophile playing condition).

If you are looking for top quality sound — and seriously, what else would you be looking for on this blog? —  then make sure not to buy any old early Pink Label UK pressing of the album. You may end up with one that sounds as bad as this one did.

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On Security, Robert Ludwig Let Us Down, Big Time

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Peter Gabriel Available Now

All the copies we had in our shootout were pressed domestically, and none of them were mastered by the legendary Robert Ludwig except for the one whose stampers you see below.

We awarded both sides of RL’s cutting a sub-Hot Stamper grade of 1+, which means the sound is passable at best, even after a good cleaning. (Without a good cleaning it would probably not even earn that single plus.)

We do not sell records with 1+ grades. We figure you can find those on your own. The world is full of them, as are most audiophile record collections.

1+ is actually a fairly good grade for many of the Heavy Vinyl pressings being made today. Some of the ones we’ve reviewed can be found in our Heavy Vinyl mediocrities section.

Any version of the album we sell will be noticeably — and probably dramatically — better sounding.

If you own any of those titles and didn’t pay much for them, you didn’t get ripped off too badly. You got something for your money. Not much, but something, and it would surprise us no end if any of them have been played much. Mediocre records tend to spend most of their lives sitting on record shelves. They’re not good enough sounding to bother with.

If you have any of these specific Heavy Vinyl pressings, something is wrong somewhere and it would be a good idea for you to figure out what before you flush any more money down the drain.

General Advice

On this title, forget the Brits. Every British pressing we played was badly smeared and veiled.

This took us somewhat by surprise because we happen to like the British PG pressings. However, So on British vinyl is awful too, so it’s clear (to us anyway) that the later PG records are bad on British vinyl and the early ones are better.

We are limiting our comments here to albums up through So. Anything after that is more or less terra incognita for us simply because we don’t care for any of the music he was making after 1986.

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Letter of the Week – “These days I don’t believe sh*t until my ears hear it, which is quite different than in the past.”

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Peter Gabriel Available Now

Our good customer Michel wrote to tell us — again — just how much he likes his Peter Gabriel Hot Stamper pressing of So.

I remember when I bought a 2+ copy of So. I had always thought that the UK’s would be the way to go, but even though I had a first press, ear fatigue set in quickly.

My US copy was not very good, so I wound up with the Classic gatefold … kind of cool packaging … so when I first listened to the 2+ I was besides myself, goosebumps and all.

Fast forward and I purchased a 2.5/2.5 Nearly White Hot Stamper copy. What a pleasure to be able to hear the improvement in the sound to yet another level. Bliss!

You guys have totally revolutionized my ears and my listening capabilities, which is utterly fantastic. Many thanks for that.

These days I don’t believe sh*t until my ears hear it, which is quite different than in the past.

Question … when you guys do shootouts for a particular LP, do you just compare the copies you have just procured, or do you have a +3/+3 house copy to compare to during your shootout?

What I like about the write-ups you do is it always gets me to thinking and going back to my LPs and relistening to them with my ‘new’ ears.

This process has been quite revealing.

Michel

Michel,

Thanks for your letter. As for your thinking that the Brit copies would be the way to go on So — and finding out otherwise — that’s precisely what happened to us about fifteen years ago:

We did a shootout many years ago that taught us a few things. The most surprising finding? The Brit copy I had in my own collection sucked — how about that! As a rule, I like the Brit pressings best for PG, but that rule got broken after playing all these domestic copies, some of which really sound good, clearly better than the Brits we had on hand.

Are rules made to be broken?

Yes they are.

This is a digital recording, and most of the time it is BRIGHT, SPITTY and GRAINY the way digital recordings tend to be, which plays right into the prejudices of most audiophiles for the “100% analog” approach they favor.

After hearing a bad copy, what audiophile wouldn’t conclude that all copies will have these bad qualities?

After all, it’s digital. It can’t be fixed simply by putting it on vinyl.

Ah, but that’s where logic breaks down. Proper mastering can ameliorate many if not most of a recording’s shortcomings. When we say Hot Stampers, we are talking about high-quality mastering doing exactly that.

But of course the mastering is only one part of the puzzle. I have multiple copies with the same stampers. Some of them are terrible, some of them are wonderful — you just can’t rely on the numbers to guide you with a piece of mass-produced plastic like this. You have no choice but to play the record to know what it sounds like. (And that’s a good thing. Keeps you honest. There’s no “cheating” when you have nothing to go by but the sound.)

The Classic Records pressing is at best mediocre — like most of the mid-fi junk they put out, we never bothered to write a review of it. We did manage to write more than 90, which means that as far as we’re concerned, we went beyond the call of duty and then some.

We did however happen to review the 2 LP 45 RPM Numbered Limited Edition that came out in 2016. We found it to be one of the worst sounding pressings of the album ever made. Of course it went right into our audiophile hall of shame with others of its ilk where it belonged.

As for the question of having a 3+ reference copy on the shelf to keep around for the next shootout, we have some, but not that many, probably less than a hundred.

Since we do more than a thousand different titles over the course of a decade, it would be nice to have more, but they aren’t really needed. It’s easy to hear when a record is doing everything right. When a record has one side that is not quite up to snuff, it’s the shootout that shows us in what area it may be lacking.

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Peter Gabriel – Self-Titled No. 2 (Scratch)

More of the Music of Peter Gabriel

  • With KILLER Shootout Winning Triple Plus (A+++) sound or close to it from start to finish, this original UK Charisma pressing is doing practically everything right
  • This has long been a favorite album of mine, a Desert Island Disc if you will, with some of the most powerfully produced, intelligently written and passionately performed songs in the entire PG canon
  • We shot out a number of other imports and the midrange presence, bass, and dynamics on this outstanding copy placed it head and shoulders above most other pressings we played
  • Marks in the vinyl are sometimes the nature of the beast with these vintage LPs – there simply is no way around them if the superior sound of vintage analog is important to you
  • 4 stars on AllMusic: “‘On the Air’ and ‘D.I.Y.’ are stunning slices of modern rock circa 1978, bubbling with synths, insistent rhythms, and polished processed guitars, all enclosed in a streamlined production that nevertheless sounds as large as a stadium.”
  • If I were to compile a list of my top twenty rock and pop albums of 1978, this album would most likely be one of the most played titles on that list, one that I still listen to regularly to this day

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Genesis – Trespass

More Prog Rock

  • An early Charisma import pressing that was giving us the big and bold sound we were looking for, with both sides earning solid Double Plus (A++) grades or close to them
  • The sound here is rich and Tubey Magical (particularly on side one), two qualities the CD made from these tapes surely lacks and two qualities which are crucial if this music is to sound the way the band intended
  • Forget the later reissues on the Blue Label – we have yet to hear one that can compete with these good originals
  • Probably for the more serious fan, but Melody Maker found it “…tasteful, subtle and refined.”

Take it from us, the guys who play every kind of pressing we can get our hands on, the UK pressings are the only way to go on Trespass. (more…)

Peter Gabriel / Security

More Peter Gabriel

  • One of the most important records in the Peter Gabriel canon, original and influential on so many levels
  • With the benefit of today’s technology, on a copy this good you hear into the soundfield in a way never possible before, picking out all the drummers and counting all the layers of multi-tracked choruses
  • “Security remains a powerful listen, one of the better records in Gabriel’s catalog, proving that he is becoming a master of tone, style, and substance…”
  • If you’re a Peter Gabriel fan, and what audiophile wouldn’t be?, this title from 1982 is surely a Must Own
  • The complete list of titles from 1982 that we’ve reviewed to date can be found here.
  • We’ve recently compiled a list of records we think every audiophile should get to know better, along the lines of “the 1001 records you need to hear before you die,” but with less of an accent on morbidity and more on the joy these amazing audiophile-quality recordings can bring to your life. Security is a good example of a record most audiophiles don’t know well but should.

Man, does this album sound better than I remember it from back in the ’80s when I first played it. Stereos have come a long way since then, along with a host of other things that help records sound better, such as cleaning fluids, room treatments and all the rest.

Now you can really hear INTO the soundfield in a way that simply was never possible before, picking out all the drummers and counting all the layers of PG’s multi-tracked choruses.

On the best pressings, both sides are huge, and the music jumps out of the speakers. The balance is perfection. (more…)

Peter Gabriel on Classic Records

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Peter Gabriel Available Now

Sonic Grade: D (or worse!)

An audiophile hall of shame pressing and another Classic Records rock album badly mastered for the benefit of audiophiles looking for easy answers and quick fixes.

We have a special section for bad sounding records that are marketed to audiophiles, and you can find that section here.

It currently has 281 entries, but if someone wanted to audition more of them — that person is definitely not me, although I cannot imagine anyone more qualified — the number could easily hit 500.

If one were to do just the Music Matters and Analogue Productions albums released to date, a thousand would be no problem.

And if one were simply to include vintage Japanese pressings, the kind many audiophiles regularly bought in the 80s and 90s for their quieter vinyl and supposedly higher quality mastering, our bad audiophile record section would contain multitudes. Multitudes I tell you!

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Unlike the First Three Albums, on Security You Can Forget the Brits

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Peter Gabriel Available Now

The basics notes here were written in 2009, about the time we finished our album by album auditions of his early catalog.

On this title, forget the Brits. Every British pressing we played was badly smeared and veiled.

This took us somewhat by surprise because we happen to like the British PG pressings, but remember, So on British vinyl is awful too, so it’s clear (to us anyway) that the later PG records are bad on British vinyl and the early ones are better.

We are limiting our comments here to albums up through So. Anything after that is more or less terra incognita for us simply because we don’t care for the music he was making after 1986.

Plays Live, from 1983, takes the dark, overly-rich, overly-thick and way-too-smooth sonics of Security and lathers it over the material he had previouly recorded up through then. Some of it works well enough I suppose, but in my experience it usually isn’t long before the monotony of this approach grows tiresome.

What We Listened For

The best copies have sonic qualities that are not the least bit difficult to recognize:

  • Presence, putting PG front and center;
  • Dynamics, both micro and macro;
  • Energy, allowing the rhythmic elements to bring out the life in the music;
  • Transparency, so that we hear all the way to the back of the studio (where some of the many musicians that play in the densest parts no doubt had to stand); and
  • Ambience, the air that surrounds all the players and what instruments they played.

And of course we played the album VERY LOUD, as loud as we could. It’s the only way to get the massive druming to sound right.

The Music

This is one of the most important records in the Peter Gabriel canon, groundbreaking and influential on so many levels. The entire album is a wonderful journey; anyone with a pop-prog bend will enjoy the ride. Just turn the volume up good and loud, turn off your mind, relax and float along with PG and the band. You’re in good hands.

I’ve listened to this one more than other PG albums with the only exception being his second release, the one produced by Robert Fripp. That one is still clearly my favorite of the lot. I play it to this day and have never tired of it since I bought it way back in 1978.

Naturally, I would have originally picked up the domestic pressing, which is clearly made from a dub tape, but in 1978 what did I know about master tapes and imported pressings?

I was still a big Mobile Fidelity fan at that time, which is a simple way of saying that it’s clear that I had a very long way to go in this hobby and a great deal left to learn!

Nothing Peter Gabriel released after So did much for me so I resigned myself to the first five albums. Five excellent albums from one artist is plenty in my book.

If you like the albums after So, to each his own and more power to you. It’s my opinion that their appeal is limited, such that doing a shootout for them is not likely to be in the cards.

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