Forums, Comments, etc.

A Few Questions for the Record Reviewing Community Regarding Counting Crows

More Entries from Tom’s Audiophile Notebook

I think I originally posted this in the comments section for Steve Westman’s youtube channel, but, to be honest, I cannot remember as it was way back in 2023 when I wrote it.


Tom Port here. Hello all. I come in peace with a quick question.

Much is made of price points when discussing these modern pressings, and rightfully so.

I admittedly do not know anything about The Counting Crows record being discussed, but I wanted to know more — what was available, from what year, mastered by whom, that sort of thing — so I went to Discogs to see what vinyl versions had been pressed recently.

The original import LP is probably made from a dub, or mastered right off the CD — that used to happen a lot in the 90s. (My beloved Jellyfish Spilt Milk on import vinyl is a dubby joke compared to every other copy I have, including the cassette. Watch for a review of the Omnivore LP coming to the blog soon.)

Then Analogue Productions put out a version in 2012, cut by Ryan Smith, which can be seen here.

There are 16 for sale starting at $127.49. It’s two discs at 45 RPM.

Chris Bellman cut the record in 2017, and his version can be found here.

CB in the deadwax. 2 discs at 33.

There are 43 available from $25.36. Since those were manufactured by Rainbo records, the vinyl may be terrible. Their stuff often is. I gave up buying their pressings in the 90s because they were so often warped and noisy.

Then there is one other which is a bit of a mystery, with no date of release, this one.

No CB in the dead wax. 2016 on the copyright info on the label though.

8 are available for $37.99

Question

Which one sounds the best?

Seems to me that this would be valuable information for your viewers to have. Why spend $100+ for an audiophile pressing when there are so many others around?

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Forum Advice: “Now I know it’s for real, but I don’t think I’ll be buying any more…”

Basic Audio Advice — These Are the Fundamentals of Good Sound

Our good customer Aaron wrote to tell us about a posting he saw on the Steve Hoffman forum. (Numerous edits have been made since I first wrote a reply.)

On the forums, I read a post by a guy who took my advice. He bought a hot stamper for $100, then bought the same deadwax on Discogs for $40. He mixed them up so he wouldn’t know which was which. He found your copy superior. His conclusion? “Now I know it’s for real, but I don’t think I’ll be buying any more…”

Unfortunately, the whole thread got deleted, so it’s not like you can go read it for yourself.

Regards, Aaron

Dear Aaron,

A hundred dollars? For an old record? Of course he’s not buying another one. He was crazy to buy the first one! No record is worth that.

Or at least that’s what I would expect to read in the follow-up comments.

On a more serious note, our Hot Stamper pressing could’ve been a lot better than the one this person bought off Discogs, a little better, or possibly even no better.

Stereo Bashing

That’s because nothing you read on the Hoffman forum can be taken seriously. The stereos these folks have – I’m assuming, since all the evidence points in that direction and no evidence points in any other direction — are not capable of reproducing music at a high level.

You’ll notice very few of them ever talk about their stereos, about the improvements they’ve made to them, or even the idea of challenging themselves to make any improvements to the quality of their playback.

Too Much Trouble

Why would they? It’s simply not what the forum is for. It is not for Hi-Fi types. It is for the mid-level audiophile who needs someone to tell him what he wants to hear in order to save him the trouble of working it all out for himself. (Of course he will never be able to do that, and at least part of the reason is that, out of the thousands of folks on this forum, there may not be a single one of them who understands audio and records at anything other than the most superficial level. If there is a person with deep knowledge of these subjects, outside of a select few of my customers who wasted their time posting there, I have yet to read him.)

A Cult of Personality

It is, furthermore, rather obviously and nakedly a personality cult, one built around the pretense that there exists someone in the professional world of audio who knows all the answers and, miracle of miracles, can be coaxed into emerging from his sacred cave to share some wisdom with the reverent masses who hang on his every word. His way must be the only way. Any hint of apostasy is swiftly punished by those who monitor the forum, along with the piling on by true believers itching to denounce anyone who fails to toe the line.

If none of that works, exile from the cult community must follow. No poisonous discussion of pressing variations is to be allowed (see below).



Software and Hardware

Clearly the forum is set up to allow music lovers to exchange opinions and information about software. The hardware side of it is none of your damn business.

The fact that the software is being placed into the equivalent of a long-out-of-date, poorly-functioning old computer doesn’t seem to be of concern to anyone.

And why should it?

All that stereo stuff costs a lot of money and takes a lot of time. It requires a dedicated room that I suspect few of the people on the forum have access to. Room treatments? You have to be kidding. What the hell for? Good software solves all your audio problems. You just need to know which version of it to buy and your troubles are over.

God forbid they would pull their speakers out from the wall and find another place to put the TV. That is just never going to happen.

For that and many other reasons –reasons that nobody really wants to talk about, or, worse, hear about — they are in no position to make judgments about the sound of any recording, on any format.

You won’t have to read many postings to get a painfully clear picture of how much work these folks have put into their setup, system and room in the pursuit of audio excellence. And that, more than anything written above, explains why they will continue to embrace one bad audiophile pressing after another, no matter how bad their sound.

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Hot Stamper Sharing Can’t Get Off the Ground, How Come?

Basic Concepts and Record Realities Explained 

The above link takes you to our blog. Normally such a link would take you to our in-stock Hot Stamper pressings on the site for the band in question, but we rarely have any Traffic albums to sell these days, which is the case as of this writing.

Finding just the right Traffic pressings, with audiophile-quality vinyl no less, requires effort and resources that we just haven’t been committing to lately. We hope to do better in 2025.

In 2014 somebody on the Hoffman forum tried to get a Hot Stamper thread going under this heading: cheap Hot Stampers revealed.

The thread:

“If you have a “hot stamper” record – one that smokes and takes no prisoners, I mean a BADASS pressing, show it here with matrix info, label or other identifying features so we can all hunt with a bit of a head-start.

“I know these records are out there, just looking for a place to show off their analog glory.

“Here is a recent find that fits the bill and then some:

“Traffic: Best Of Traffic UK.

“Matrix # ILPS 9112 A-1/B-1”

OK, let’s talk about this Island reissue. We know the record well. If it sounds the way the copies we played over the years have sounded, we would say it can be good, not great, and if it qualified for Hot Stamper status, it might — might — earn a plus and a half at best. (1.5+.)

We don’t even bother to pick them up at any price these days, if that tells you anything.

He got very little support in his endeavor. The thread closed after a while with practically nothing in it.

Could it be that the folks on the Hoffman forum have a poor grasp of the amount of effort, time and money it takes to find Hot Stampers?

And, having committed to neither the effort, the time nor the money, find that they have nothing of any value to contribute to such a list?  

Yes, that could be. That definitely could be. Thank god it doesn’t keep them from criticizing those of us who, working in concert with a staff of ten or so, have devoted ourselves to the task and found them by the thousands.

By the way, we know that Traffic title very well. The Pink Label original is by far the best pressing in our experience. No copy we have ever heard on the label promoted by this poster would qualify as much more than a bargain Hot Stamper in comparison to the Pink Label and Pink Rim label pressings that we sell, although of course, not having heard his copy, we can’t say it’s not fabulous. 

It’s just not very likely to be fabulous. 

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Put Us to the Test! We Can Tell a Good Record from a Bad One, Digital or No Digital

Skeptical Thinking Is Key to Finding Better Sounding Records

And we don’t need to know anything about how it was made in order to judge it!

For those of you who did not follow this story from a few years back, you may want to catch up here.

Although it’s behind a paywall, you can get a free test drive easily enough.

Now that you are up to date on the overall contours of this mess, here is another one of the many thoughts I have had concerning the revelation that Mobile Fidelity has been secretly sourcing at least some of their masters digitally since 2015.

Back in August of 2022, I wrote what you see below to Geoff Edgers, the reporter who exposed this ridiculous mess. (I toned it down quite a bit. The original version was not suitable for publication.)

Earlier that same year he had visited me at my studio, where I played him the awful Dire Straits first album that MoFi remastered, one of the worst half speeds ever made (review coming, but you can get a good idea of my take on it here).

By August of 2022 he was starting to see just how crazy the world of audiophiles actually is, and the more he learned about some of these people, the crazier they seemed. And he was not wrong about that.

My letter (with a few additions):

Jim Davis (of MoFi) is not one to be trusted and would have loved to cover up this whole thing if he could have figured out how to do it. It got away from him, and as far as I’m concerned, good.

And you heard how shitty their Dire Straits record is. Who cares if it’s digital? The sound is bad. Why bother trying to figure out the reasons this crappy label doesn’t know how to make good records? It’s just a fact. Accept it.

Many of MoFi’s now-exposed records were on Fremer and Esposito’s own lists of the best sounding analog albums.

Of course they were. I defy you to find me two “audiophile experts” who are wrong more often than these guys!

From the article:

One of the reasons they want to excoriate MoFi is for lying,” says Howarth. “The other part that bothers them is that they’ve been listening to digital all along and they’re highly invested in believing that any digital step will destroy their experience. And they’re wrong.

These people who claim they have golden ears and can hear the difference between analog and digital, well, it turns out you couldn’t.

The best ears? Are you kidding me? In their dreams. These guys give every indication that they are virtually devoid of critical listening skills. The evidence supporting this reality has been laid out in this very blog in scores of commentaries over the course of more than twenty years.

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Is It Possible to Find Out Who Mastered the Japanese Thrillers?

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Michael Jackson Available Now

A letter we received not long ago made the point that the Japanese pressing of Thriller the owner had been listening to for years, even decades, fell well short of the mark set by the sound of the White Hot Stamper pressing he now owned.

To think, I spent all those years playing and re-playing a record that was bright and edgy, none the wiser to matrix numbers and pressing variations.

I agreed, saying that I myself learned the hard way, having wasted some of my own money on them. that Japanese pressings were almost always a crock, writing:

Most Japanese pressings cater to what a mid-fi system would need to sound good and a hi-fi system would find ruinous. They are almost always made from dubbed tapes, which are then brightened up in the mastering phase since that is the sound that appeals to the Japanese market for some reason unknown to me. Old school audio equipment — horn speakers and vintage tube electronics — would be my guess.

A fellow who saw an opening to set me straight and take me down a peg, all without having to learn how to use that pesky shift key on his computer, left the following comment in that post:

the japanese pressings were mastered by BG. the only difference being the quality of the material. nice try though, snakeoil salesman.

I immediately went to battle stations. I doubted whether Bernie Grundman has mastered any pressings for the Japanese market, but I couldn’t say for sure. It’s a question that had never come up. We ourselves had discovered a very good sounding pressing of Tusk that was mastered by Ken Perry and pressed in Japan, so I knew it was possible that the original mastering engineer could have sent metalwork to Japan for the Japanese to produce properly-mastered records for their market.

Fortunately, Discogs makes checking such things fairly easy. I went right up to the listing for Thriller and clicked on all the Japanese original pressings to see if there was any evidence to show that he had mastered them.

Bernie Grundman’s name was credited on the back cover as the mastering engineer, but I didn’t put much stock in that. I assumed that he did not master the album for their market, since that is hugely impractical. I surmised that removing his credit would have badly defaced the jacket, something I doubted the Japanese would have found acceptable. They seem to be very particular about these things.

Sure enough, here is what the stampers look like for the typical Japanese pressing that supposedly would have been mastered by BG:

There are about half a dozen original Japanese pressings for the album on Discogs and all the stamper listings look like the one above.

If you know anything about records, you know that these markings could not have been created by Bernie Grundman’s mastering operation here in the states.

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Big Star’s #1 Record – Is All Analog Better?

Robert Brook runs a blog called The Broken Record, with a subtitle explaining that the aim of his blog is to serve as:

A GUIDE FOR THE DEDICATED ANALOG AUDIOPHILE

We know of none better, outside of our own humble attempt to enlighten that portion of the audiophile community who love records and are looking to understand them better.

Here is one of Robert’s postings from way back in 2021. The reason it is going up today is that the fellow who remastered the record for Craft, Jeff Powell, also remastered the Born Under a Bad Sign we reviewed recently here. Small world, right?

Back in the 90s I played an import pressing that was in print at the time. As I recall it was very bright, but that seems to be the sound the band was going for. I like Power Pop as much as the next guy, but the bright sound put me off and that was that. I never offered the record for sale, figuring that most customers would not be happy with the sound.

Chris Bellman cut the record for Classic Records in 2009, reportedly on an “All Tube” cutting system. Based on the man’s previous work I would not expect it to be to my liking. He cut a serviceable version of Brothers in Arms years ago, which I thought was quite good for anything pressed on Heavy Vinyl. It would probably earn a grade of 1.5+. Eventually I will get around to posting a review on this blog about it. To say Chris Bellman is no Robert Ludwig may be a massive understatement, but is there anyone today who can begin to match the mastering skills of the great RL?

By the way, the cheapest copy on Discogs is $163.04 if you are interested.

Big Star’s #1 Record Reissues: Is ALL ANALOG Better?

 

Most of the reviews on Discogs are of the Five Star “I can’t believe how good this record sounds” variety, something that is both tiresome and somewhat sickening considering that the quality is sure to be as poor as Robert says it is, if not worse.

One guy had the temerity to stick his head up, offering a dissent from the lovefest being thrown for a record he found of dubious quality. Naturally, a bunch of Discogers jumped all over him for his apostasy.

It’s just now dawning on me that this sort of behavior is not limited to the Steve Hoffman forum.

Here he “risks eternity” by speaking his mind. If they could find a way to burn him at the stake for the crime of questioning the quality of a Heavy Vinyl pressing they happen to like, you can be sure they would be organizing the gathering of the kindling at this very moment. They call him an “elitist goof, ” “a wanker,” and question his bona fides as an audiophile, the standard-issue audiophile forum approach to those who waver from the true path.

This is my favorite reply, offering little more than an appeal to authority. These guys are pros. How could they possibly make a bad sounding record? That’s not what they do, you idiot!

Why anyone would choose to associate with such intolerant, ill-mannered, small-minded people is beyond me.

The true believers at the Hoffman forum are even worse. There, if you write something upsetting to the delicate sensibilities of its members, they simply delete the post and send it down the memory hole where it can no longer do harm to the faithful.

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It’s Official – The Audiophile World Has Lost Its Mind

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Black Sabbath Available Now

A little more than a year ago, back in June of 2023, we reviewed The Cars first album Rhino released on Heavy Vinyl. Here is our review.

We didn’t see the point in pulling our punches — when a record sounds as bad as that Cars album, somebody should stand up and say so, so we did.

We said it was possibly the worst version of the album ever made, its only competition being the Nautilus pressing from 1980, one of those bottom-of-the-barrel I-hope-we-all-learned-our-lesson Half-Speeds from back in the salad days of the remastered audiophile record craze.

(Yes, I admit I bought plenty of that crap back then, and I can’t even say for sure that I could tell how awful the remastered Nautilus pressing sounded. I believed what I was told — that the original pressings needed the ministrations of some guys with a lathe who thought they knew more than the engineers at Sterling when it came to cutting good sounding records. I must have been completely clueless to believe any of it, and now that I look back on those days, it’s obvious I was.)

But enough about me. Let’s talk about the hack who cut this godawful record. If you will allow me to quote myself from my Cars review:

Kevin Gray has struck again. He’s a modern one-man demolition crew, taking exceptionally well recorded analog albums and turning them into the vinyl equivalent of CDs, and bad CDs at that.

What we heard on side one of the new Black Sabbath remaster can be seen from our notes as reproduced below.

  • Nasal, upper midrange boost
  • No real space
  • Hard and smeary
  • Sizzly rain intro
  • Vocals are very present in a harsh and unpleasant way

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Can Every Audiophile System Do Its Job Well?

More on the Subject of Speaker Advice

That depends on exactly what job you think you’re giving it to do.

If its job is to allow you to enjoy music in the comfort of your home, then the little box speakers you see pictured to the left can do that job just fine, with the caveat that you must be able to enjoy the kind of sound that comes out of little boxes.

If the job you give your stereo to do is to reproduce the full range of music with high fidelity, then the little boxes you see pictured are going to fail miserably. Until the laws of physics are repealed, however that might happen, they will never be able to reproduce music in a lifelike way.

I like big dynamic speakers because they do a better job of reproducing music in a lifelike way compared to every other speaker I have ever heard, horns included, which can be very lifelike indeed, but have other shortcomings that I cannot abide.

This is not just another post bashing small speakers. I say these things to introduce the comment sent to me that you see below.

I received this anonymous letter recently in reply to a commentary I had written entitled Tone Poets and one-legged Tarzans.

Another poster defended rl1856’s claims for the abilities of his system to judge different pressings, noting that his criticisms of these remastered records — both on Tone Poets and Classic Records — generally align with mine.

I find this ending hilarious: “Never Played One – To be clear, we have never played a Tone Poets record. We’ve played many titles mastered by Kevin Gray, and we know that he is credited with mastering some records for the label. Without exception we find that his remastered records leave a lot to be desired. You can find many of them in our Hall of Shame. Anyone defending his work to me has some heavy lifting to do.”

You condemn rl1856 for expressing an opinion regarding something YOU ADMIT YOU NEVER HEARD because you believe his equipment is not resolving enough ? The irony is that his opinion largely mirrors yours regarding the sonic virtues of original RVG recordings ! How is it that he, listening through his “inferior” system can hear the virtues you ascribe to RVG pressings, and also hear when those virtues are not present?

My reply, after a week of thinking about the points this gentleman makes, can be seen below.

Hi,
Thanks for writing.

Little box speakers do produce sound of some quality. It would be foolish for me to say that one can’t actually hear something through them. The question is how much?

I believe the answer is not much, and that nobody reviewing records, or comparing one pressing to another, should be fooling himself into thinking he can do either one with a speaker of such little fidelity to the sound of live music.

Good stereos playing good records can sound like live music. With the volume up high and a shootout winning pressing on the table, in our studio the best of RVG’s recordings sound very much like live music

Does anyone think that, brought into this gentleman’s listening room wearing a blindfold and seated in the listening chair, he could be fooled into thinking he was hearing live music instead something coming out of some boxes?

Nothing I’ve played that Kevin Gray mastered, when played on the system we use — the one we developed specifically to evaluate the sound quality of records — was ever noticeably better than mediocre.

We’ve played his records by the score. They all suffer from the same suite of shortcomings to one degree or another, the specifics of which we have described in detail in post after post throughout this blog. (Here is a good example of some of his recent work.)

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Letter of the Week – “Am I really paying for nothing when I buy a Hot Stamper? “

More of the Music of Carole King

One of our good customers had this to say about his recent experience on the Steve Hoffman forum.

We’ve added some headings and such like. Scroll down to read the many comments that have been left, most of which I have replied to at length.

Hi Tom,

When Fred emailed me to say that a copy of Tapestry was about to hit the site, I did not hesitate in buying it. I’m not writing today with one of my usual raves of your records. Suffice it to say, it’s always a joy to be hear an album I thought I knew by heart in a whole new way. Rather I’m writing because I still can’t fully square my enthusiasm for your records with the reaction I got when I talked about it on the Steve Hoffman Forum a couple months ago.

Hoffman’s Parting Words

As I purchased my 32nd (!) record from you without a moment’s hesitation, Steve Hoffman’s parting words to me sprang back into my mind. Could he possibly be right? Am I really paying for nothing when I buy a hot stamper? By posting my appreciation of Better Records on his forum, was I merely inducing other people to throw their money away too? Have I been fooling myself? Are there other ways to get records that sound as good as yours?

I never had a chance to respond to his view there because the whole thread was taken down a few minutes after he posted that, so if you don’t mind, I’d like to ask you to share my views with the readers of your blog, since people can’t find my views on the Steve Hoffman forum.

So here goes.

We’re all aware that there’s misinformation on the internet. We’ve learned by now how to spot the sins of commission – the obvious manipulations and falsehoods. What’s more pernicious are the sins of omission – accurate information that’s been removed because it does not fit a narrative.

Somebody interested in finding great sounding records would be blameless if they ended up with a pile of mediocrities, because they followed the advice and opinions readily available on the internet. It’s a frustration that there are so few voices like yours and Robert Brook’s offering a different view.

The biggest problem with a stack of mediocre records that you mistakenly believe are excellent is that if you ever notice they don’t sound very good, the only fix you can think of is to buy more expensive equipment.

And that’s where the real money gets wasted.

[Hear hear!]

A Roadmap for Finding “Pretty Good Records”?

There are tons of posts on the Steve Hoffman Forum, and tons of people are presumably following the advice there, but what’s on there is really nothing more than a roadmap to finding Pretty Good Records.

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Heretics and True Believers Clash on the Battlefield in Cyberspace, Part Two

More Letters from Customers and Critics Alike

Part one of this conversation can be found here. [Some bolding and such added.]

Hi, Tom,

Are there other great sounding stereos out there? I’m sure there are. Just as there are great sounding records still to be found out in the wild.

But, the stereo I’ve built by rapidly copying what you did painstakingly over decades is giving me better sound from recorded music than I’ve encountered almost anywhere else, including on far more expensive systems. It’s also more honest, direct, and revealing than stereos usually are.

First, I trusted you on records, and you were right. Then, I trusted you on stereos, and you were right again.

As for how people can find great sounding records. I expressed three pieces of the advice I’ve come to realize are true. All controversial enough, apparently, to get a thread shut down.

First, they can buy records from you.

If they don’t yield sound commensurate with price, just return the darned thing. A couple Better Records a year will probably build somebody a better-sounding vinyl collection than the same amount of money dumped in a shop or on Discogs. Tom, I have never encountered a disappointed *customer* of yours.

Second, don’t ascribe to hard and fast rules.

No, it is not true that all records from a given pressing house or mastering engineer are the definitive versions. There are better-sounding copies sitting in bins at used shops. Not all of them, but some, and they are often cheaper. This is a reality that is hard to find online, because it turns out it is hard to state it online.

Third, if you want to find great-sounding records on your own, plan to buy lots of copies of a particular title.

Avoid original pressings – those are not guaranteed to sound better, and they come at a premium.

[I take issue with this idea, see below.]

Play them all, pick your favorite (one, in my experience, is likely to stand out). Then, hope that your local shop takes returns, or that you are able to unload them on Discogs. Might somebody save themselves some money doing it this way, compared to buying a record from you? Maybe? But then, if they decide to “check their work” by buying a record from you, yours is going to sound better.

When I offered this advice on that forum, I got told I was wrong. Instead, those guys have a formula that works for them. I’d say it’s a formula for ending up with Pretty Good Records. First, you search the forums to find the deadwax for a copy that somebody has commented is THE one to have.

They usually don’t mention what type of equipment they have, or how many other copies of that record they’ve heard, or even what in particular about it sounds good. For me, going after pressings recommended online has never been a reliable way to find a great-sounding record.

And, when I get a Better Record, I check to see if it is a stamper that’s already known to sound good. Almost always, there’s no mention of it anywhere. Second piece of accepted wisdom on the forums: NM always sounds better than VG+. Here’s something I said that seemed to really piss people off: Good-sounding records got played a lot. Somebody really took me to task for suggesting that I had purchased from you a copy of a record I love that would probably grade VG+ based on the appearance of its surfaces, but that was delivering sound so good, I had zero desire to hunt for another copy, even the same deadwax in NM condition. Sure, I’d buy it if I ever came across it, but I would not expect it to sound better than the copy I already had. So, even among a group of seasoned vinyl listeners that understand certain truths they still seem to live by certain principles in collecting records that simply do not work consistently.

I’ve spent a lot of time blaming myself for the money and time I wasted on pretty-good records, played on a pretty-good stereo. I trusted the magazines and the salesmen. I don’t think they were being disingenuous; I just think they didn’t know any better. I trusted the splashy websites, the satisfied customer reviews, the youtube gushes, and the forum posters. This many people can’t all be wrong. They must know what they are talking about. And, I wasn’t hearing any other information.

Now I know why I wasn’t hearing any countervailing views – they get deleted. For somebody who wants to attain better sound, there’s your shop, and more importantly, your blog. I know the vast majority of people who come across either of these will dismiss them outright. Their loss. A few will return, and be better off for it – even, financially.

The most painful accusation I encountered on the forum was that I am doing people a disservice by leading them to spend their money and not get anything in return. It hurt to read that. Of course, I would never want to do that. To anybody who becomes your customer because I said they should give it a try, I’d give them the same advice you gave me early on: Take it slow. Once you discover how good these records can sound, there’s a real urge to start snapping them up. Instead, just take it slow. Enjoy each one. Better Records isn’t going anywhere.

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