mystery-rca

Is It Hard for You to Imagine Stampers So Similar Sounding This Different?

Hot Stamper Pressings of Living Stereo Recordings Available Now

Subtitle: it’s also hard to imagine that space and time are two aspects of the same reality, spacetime, but that’s why we employ rigorous scientific methods to test our theories and — in some cases — prove ourselves wrong.

We here at Better Records like testing records. We want to know if the predictions we make about the titles we play are accurate, which is simply to say, do they match the data derived from our blinded shootouts?

In the case of the stampers for this mystery title, it turns out that our whatever intuitions we may have had going in would have been no help at all. Who could possibly predict that, for sound quality on side one, 13s would substantially beat 12s, 12s would beat 15s, and that 15s would beat 11s. Side two was even wackier: 10s badly beat 12s, 12s beat 11s, and 11s beat 20s.

I can detect practically no pattern in these numbers, on either side. They seem pretty random.

But we don’t have a problem with random numbers because the person sitting at the table playing the record and the person in the listening chair grading the sound of that record never know what the stampers are for any of the records they are playing. This should be standard practice, but it seems nobody in the audiophile world practices it but us and Robert Brook.

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3s Can Have Amazingly Good Sound, or 3s Can Have Mediocre Sound

Hot Stamper Pressings of Living Stereo Recordings Available Now

But how can you tell which 3s copies sound amazing and which 3s copies don’t?

Below you will see the stamper sheet for a shootout we did not long ago.

A lot of our stamper sheets look like this one, close to half I would guess.

As you can see, the stampers and the sound are all over the map. This is not the least bit unusual in our experience. It’s simply the nature of records — they tend to come off the press with very different sound depending on factors that no one seems to understand very well, not even us!

Note that the album you see pictured is not the record we did the shootout for.

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Does 1s Sound Great or Does It Sound Good (but Hot, Dry and Crude)?

Hot Stamper Pressings of Living Stereo Recordings Available Now

Below you will see the complete stamper sheet for a shootout we did recently.

Note that the album you see pictured is not the record we did the shootout for.

We are not revealing what record had these stampers and earned these grades for the simple reason that we rarely if ever give out the specific information that identifies the best sounding pressing of any album.

As I’m sure you can understand, we want you to buy the copy with the Hottest Stampers from us, not find one on your own! We’re happy to be moderately helpful, but naturally we find it necessary to draw the line somewhere, and giving out “the shootout winning stampers” is where we choose to draw it.

How Come?

Since, as we discovered recently, 1s wins, and handily, why would any 1s pressing sound as bad as the one at the bottom does?

(Which by the way is not actually bad — just far from the best.)

If the 1s wins the shootout as it did here, that means that the received knowledge about RCA Living Stereo pressings being better on the first pressing is correct.

But if you are the unlucky buyer of the 1s that did not do nearly as well, you might say to yourself “Hey, I thought the 1s pressing was supposed to be the hot ticket. Wha’ happen?” (Assuming you don’t conclude that the recording is at fault, which is what most audiophiles and record collectors would be likely to do. I did it and I bet you did too.)

We noted in a commentary from many years ago that the record collecting theories we see commonly promoted by those who consider themselves “in the know” seem to have a great deal of trouble accounting for these anomalies.

We had two copies of Court and Spark, each with one good side opposite a bad side on the same pressing. An excerpt:

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Sure, 1s Wins, But Why Does 2s Do So Much Worse?

Hot Stamper Living Stereo Classical and Orchestral Titles Available Now

Below you will see a section of the stamper sheet for a shootout we did recently.

Keep in mind that, as usual, the album you see pictured is not the record we did the shootout for.

In the case of this mystery record, the 1s stamper was by far the best, with the Plum Label copies having later stampers (2s) earning a sub-Hot Stamper grade on side one.

The 1+ grade found on this side one means it’s simply not very good, the kind of sound we consider to be no better than passable, We do offer records with 1+ grades as Hot Stamper pressings.

What would be the point? You can find them on your own. The world is full of mediocre records. They sit in the bins of every record store you walk into and make up the bulk of record collections of both audiophiles and music lovers alike.

How Come?

Since, as we discovered recently, 1s wins, and wins handily, why does 2s/3s do so much worse?

I could guess, but that would violate our policy against pretending to know what cannot be known.

Something in the range of five to ten per cent of the major label Golden Age recordings we play will eventually make it to the site. The vast majority just don’t sound all that good to us. (Many have second- and third-rate performances and those get tossed without ever making it to a shootout.)

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Another Knockout for Indianapolis, and It Was Rarely Even Close

Hot Stamper Pressings of Living Stereo Recordings Available Now

Below you will see the complete stamper sheet for a shootout we did in 2024.

Note that the album you see pictured is not the record we did the shootout for.

For RCA classical and orchestral recordings, many collectors think that the earliest pressings on the Shaded Dog label, in stereo, pressed in Indianapolis, tend to be the best sounding. 

More often than not, a rule of thumb like that one turns out to be right, which is how it got to be a rule of thumb in the first place. In this shootout, it turned out to be as right as rain.

The best pressingss with 1s stampers beat the 2s which beat the3s. Indianapolis was once again the pressing plant that produced the best sounding copies.

In fact, in this case the differences were even starker than we would have imagined going in. No copy not pressed in Indianapolis was even saleable, since a record that does not earn a grade of at least 1.5+ on both sides can qualify as a Hot Stamper pressing.

Fortunately, even though we were buying them randomly, we managed to luck out to some degree by finding many more 1s pressings than later-numbered ones.

Key Takeaways

  • 1s/1s is by far the best stamper for this mystery title, as collector wisdom would have predicted.
  • Indianapolis produced the best sounding pressings in this shootout, again, as predicted.
  • At some point collector wisdom fails us, as the Shootout Winning stampers (3+) and the good, not great stampers (1.5+) turned out to be the same stampers. This means that:
  • 1s is no guarantee of top quality sound. It follows that:
  • 1s might be the hot ticket, the 3/3 winner, but the odds, four to one, are against it. Again, it follows that:
  • As is almost always the case, the 1s pressing is most likely to be one of a bunch of potentially hot tickets.

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Seems as Though the Shaded Dogs Pressed in Indianapolis Actually Do Sound Better

Hot Stamper Pressings of Living Stereo Recordings Available Now

As painful as it may be for us to admit it, sometimes the conventional wisdom turns out to be right!

For RCA classical and orchestral recordings, collectors have long held that the earliest pressings on the Shaded Dog label, in stereo, pressed in Indianapolis, tend to be the best sounding. That qualifier “tend” may not be necessary — plenty of audiophiles think they simply are better sounding, no question about it.

Maybe. If we tallied all the copies we’ve played and created a very large spreadsheet using the data, perhaps we could give you a better answer than “maybe,” but we’ve definitely never tallied them up and have no plans to do so. It sounds like a lot of work.

We are not revealing what record had these stampers and earned these grades for the simple reason that we rarely if ever give out the specific information that identifies the best sounding pressing of any album.

As I’m sure you can understand, we want you to buy the copy with the Hottest Stampers from us, not find one on your own! We’re happy to be somwhat helpful, but naturally we find it necessary to draw the line somewhere, and giving out “the shootout winning stampers” are where we choose to draw it.

You can be sure, based on our most recent shootout for this mystery RCA title, that in future we will focus our efforts on the Indianapolis pressings and avoid the Richmond pressings unless they are cheap and minty.

When the conventional wisdom turns out to be correct, in other words, when it comports with reality, at least for the seven copies of this album that we played, we are happy to temporarily put aside our skepticism and learn from what this title is trying to tell us.

Why? Because the experimental evidence supports it.

The reality is that most of the time we are not able to predict which stampers will win a shootout before we actually sit down to play all our copies.

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Why Do the Later Stampers of this Shaded Dog Sound So Much Better than the Earlier Ones?

Hot Stamper Pressings of Living Stereo Recordings Available Now

For RCA classical and orchestral recordings, the earliest pressings on the Shaded Dog label, in stereo, tend to be the best sounding, right? 

Maybe. It’s an open question, at least it is for us when we consider how many exceptions to the rule we’ve run into over the 30+ years we’ve been buying and selling them.

If we tallied all the copies we’ve played and created a very large spreadsheet using the data, perhaps we could give you a better answer than “we don’t know,” but we’ve definitely never tallied them up and have no plans to do so. It sounds to me like a lot of work.

However, in our experience, and contrary to the conventional wisdom, sometimes the higher-numbered pressings are better sounding than the lower-numbered pressings. This is true of the stampers for the Shaded Dog pressings below.

Keep in mind that the stamper numbers you see belong to a different album.

The questions that audiophiles who collect shaded dog pressings should be asking themselves right about now are:

  • Why is 17s/20s consistently better sounding than any copy with any other stampers?
  • Why is the 16s pressing worse sounding than even the worst 17s pressing when they are both Indianapolis pressings only one digit apart?
  • Why does the 20s side two potentially win the shootout with a 3+ grade, but more often only earn a grade of 2.5+ or 2+?
  • And the hardest to stomach of them all are those second-rate 10s stampers. How on earth can they come in last in a shootout against all the copies with higher numbers?

It turns out that the old rule of thumb that the lower-numbered stampers will sound better than the higher-numbered ones is not nearly as reliable as some folks would like it to be.

If it were more reliable, we could all just buy the lowest-numbered stamper copies we could find and know that we had the best available pressing. Then, if we were lucky enough to encounter an even lower-numbered stamper copy, we could buy that one and know that we now had an even better sounding pressing, all without having to play the old “best” one against the new “best” one.

It’s so convenient and logical this way, why would anyone want to bother with a different illogical, inconvenient and obviously counterintuitive method when the other one has so much going for it?

There is only one problem with the idea of collecting the earliest shaded dog pressings in order to secure the best sounding pressings — the fact that the evidence to support such an approach is so spotty. Yes, early stampers win lots of shootouts. No, early stampers do not win all the shootouts, or even a majority of them, judging by a rough calculation using the data from the many hundreds of stamper sheets we’ve created over the years.

Predictions Are Futile

The unfortunate reality we run into is that most of the time we are not able to predict which stampers will win a shootout before we actually sit down to play all our copies.

Although it’s true that there are many pressings in which one set of stampers always wins, the odds are that any particular pressing with those stampers will do well but won’t win, and it sometimes happen that some pressings with those stampers won’t do well at all.

This is why we have to do shootouts, and why you have to do them too, if finding the highest quality pressings is important to you.

Fortunately for readers of this blog, our methods are explained in detail, free of charge.

We’ve also written quite a few commentaries to help audiophiles improve the way they think about records.

I implore everyone who wants to make progress in this hobby to learn from the mistakes we’ve made. There are 146 “we were wrong” listings on the site as of this writing, and we learned something from every damn one of them, painful and costly as those experiences may have been.

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Do All the Early Stamper Shaded Dog Pressings of this Title Sound Good?

Hot Stamper Pressings of Living Stereo Recordings Available Now

Below you will see the complete stamper sheet for a shootout we did recently.

Note that the album you see pictured — LSC 2265 — is not the record we did this particular shootout for.

We are not revealing what record had these stampers and earned these grades for the simple reason that we rarely if ever give out the specific information that identifies the best sounding pressing of any album.

As I’m sure you can understand, we want you to buy the copy with the Hottest Stampers from us, not find one on your own! We’re happy to be somwhat helpful, but naturally we find it necessary to draw the line somewhere, and giving out “the shootout winning stampers” are where we choose to draw it.

One set of stampers for the mystery Shaded Dog pressings we played in our most recent shootout sounded consistently subpar.

The sound on 3s was boxy and the violin was dry. This was surprising as the stampers are quite low: 3s/1s.

Many RCA chamber recordings can be dry, and if one owned a nice early stamper pressing of the album with boxy, dry sound, one might conclude that this RCA is just another chamber recording with those shortcomings.

But one would be wrong, because the 1s stamper shootout winner sounded amazing, not dry or boxy in the least.

How Come?

Since, as we discovered recently, 1s wins, and handily, why does 3s/1s do so much worse?

Who knows?

And why is the White Dog barely passable on side one and just awful on side two?

Your guess is as good as mine.

More of the Same

Below you will find links to other records we’ve played that had the same problems as our mystery RCA here.

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