Bruce Swedien, Engineer – Reviews, Commentaries and Letters

Thoughts on Hearing an Amazing Copy of Thriller in the 80s

Hot Stamper Pressing of the Music of Michael Jackson Available Now

The killer copy of Thriller that we discovered in our 2006 shootout gave us a whole new appreciation for just how good the album could sound. It was a real breakthrough, and proof that significant progress in audio is just a matter of time and effort, the more the better.


Our review from 2006

I remember twenty years ago (that would be 1986) playing Thriller and thinking the sound was transistory, spitty, and aggressive.

Well, I didn’t have a Triplanar tonearm, a beautiful VPI table and everything that goes along with them back then. (More here.)

Now I can play the record.

I couldn’t back then.

All that spit was simply my table, arm, cartridge and setup not being good enough, along with all the garbage downstream from them feeding the speakers.

The record is no different, it just sounds different now. Which is what makes the record a great test. If you can play this record, you can probably play practically any pop and rock record. (Orchestral music is quite another matter.)

This Pressing Changes Everything

This pressing has a side two that’s so amazing sounding that it completely changed my understanding and appreciation of this album. The average copy is a nice pop record. This copy is a Masterpiece of production and engineering.

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Thriller Is Proof that Bernie Grundman Was Cutting Great Records in 1982

Hot Stamper Pressing of the Music of Michael Jackson Available Now

This commentary was written many years ago, probably in 2007, right around the time that our system really started to get Thriller to sound good, owing to advances we had made in cleaning and playback. We went into a great deal more detail about those changes in this commentary, which compares the sound of Thriller from the 80s and the sound of Thriller today.

Our old friend Bernie Grundman handled the mastering for Thriller and managed to do a really nice job. Unfortunately, most copies of this mass-produced classic don’t give you as much of the magic as other copies, including the ones BG mastered.

The sound on this copy is huge — big, wide, deep, and open, with the kind of three-dimensional soundstaging that lets the music unfold in front of you and around you as well. You get the bottom-end punch that’s so crucial to this music and tons of energy. The bass is meaty and well-defined, showing you the rhythmic foundation that the music needs. The sound is transparent with amazing texture to practically every element.

Michael’s voice is marvelous on this copy — breathy, textured, and positively dripping with emotion (just listen to him break down on The Lady in My Life).

Thanks to constant improvements in our stereo, we’re now getting this album to sound better than it ever has. Extended highs appeared where none had been before. We were hearing synthesizers buried deep in the mix we’d never heard. All of a sudden, these ’80s pop records had amazing analog magic.

If your system is up to the task, you won’t believe how big and lively this album sounds. Who woulda thunk it?

In a more recent commentary we went into some detail about Bernie Grundman’s shortcomings as a mastering engineer.

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Off the Wall Vs. Thriller – Which One Has More Tubey Magic?

Hot Stamper Pressing of the Music of Michael Jackson Available Now

Many years ago we came across an amazing sounding copy of Off the Wall, which prompted a few thoughts about its sound compared to Thriller.

ABSOLUTELY STUNNING SOUND for this White Hot Stamper pressing!

Both sides cannot be beat — both have the BIG M.J. SOUND that jumps out of the speakers and fills the room. We’ve never heard a copy that was so full of ANALOG MAGIC!

The vocals are PERFECTION — breathy, full-bodied, and present. The top end is extended and sweet, with tons of ambience the likes of which I’ve never heard before.

Normally when you have a copy with strong midrange presence it will be somewhat sibilant in places. Not so here. For some reason this copy has all the highs, but it’s cut so clean it practically doesn’t spit at all. Even on the song I Can’t Help It, which normally has a problem in that respect. Since that’s my favorite song on this album, and probably my favorite MJ song of all time, hearing it sound so good was a revelation.

Better Sound than Thriller?

Yes. As consistently brilliant as Thriller may be musically — it is the biggest selling album of all time after all — speaking strictly in terms of sonics the sound of the best copies of Off the Wall is substantially sweeter, tubier, more natural, richer, and more ANALOG than Thriller.

Thriller is clearly more aggressive and processed-sounding than Off the Wall. The Girl Is Mine or Human Nature from Thriller would fit just fine anywhere on Off the Wall, but could the same be said for Beat It or Thriller? Just thinking about them you can hear the artificiality of the sound of both those songs in your head. Think about the snare that opens Beat It. I’ve never heard a snare sound like that in my life. Practically no instrument on Off the Wall has that kind of overly processed EQ’d sound.

Choruses Are Key

The richness, sweetness and freedom from artificiality is most apparent on Off the Wall where you most always hear it on a pop record: in the biggest, loudest, densest, climactic choruses.

We set the playback volume so that the loudest parts of the record are as huge and powerful as is possible for them to become without crossing the line into distortion or congestion.

On some records, Dark Side of the Moon comes instantly to mind, the guitar solos on Money are the loudest thing on the record.

On Breakfast in America the sax toward the end of The Logical Song is the biggest and loudest element in the mix, louder even than Roger Hodgson’s near-hysterical multi-track screaming “Who I am” about three quarters of the way through the track.

Those are clearly exceptions though. Usually it’s the final chorus that gets bigger and louder than anything else.

A pop song is usually structured so as to build up more and more energy as it works its way through its verses and choruses, past the bridge, coming back around to make one final push, releasing all its power in the final chorus, the climax of the song.

On a good recording — one with real dynamics — that part should be very loud and very powerful.

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The CBS Half-Speed of Off the Wall Is a Joke

Hot Stamper Pressing of the Music of Michael Jackson Available Now

Sonic Grade: F

Pure MUD. No top end whatsoever!

I remember when we audiophiles looked down our noses at CBS Half-Speeds because they weren’t pressed in Japan and sold at a notable discount to the offerings of Mobile Fidelity and their competitors.

But we were so desperate back then for top quality pressings that we bought them anyway!

Are audiophiles any less desperate today? They seem pretty desperate to me. They approach these new Heavy Vinyl records naively instead of skeptically, assuming they will be better sounding in exactly the same way I assumed the Half Speeds I was buying forty years ago would be better sounding.

The more things change…

If you are buying these modern pressings, take the advice of some of our customers and stop throwing your money away on Heavy Vinyl and Half-Speed masters.

At the very least let us send you a Hot Stamper pressing — of any album you choose — that can show you what is wrong with your copy. And if for some reason you disagree that our record sounds better than yours, we will happily give you all your money back and wish you the best.

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Letter of the Week – “Wow! is the word that describes this album and I am glad I got mine.”

Hot Stamper Pressing of the Music of Michael Jackson Available Now

One of our good customers had this to say about some Hot Stampers he purchased recently:

Hey Tom,   

The Off The Wall Hot Stamper is a fantastic album and worth every penny. I am not what you would call an audiophile and won’t ever claim to be but I know what I like. I have listened to this album 5 times and I am just amazed that all the [tracks] can SOUND SO GOOD.

I especially like Girlfriend, She’s Out of My Life where Michael’s voice strains and I can hear him take a couple of breaths before the last couple of words and I Can’t Help It is exceptional.

Wow! is the word that describes this album and I am glad I got mine.

Thanks for all the great sounds.

Desi L.

Desi,

Glad to hear you liked the sound of our Hot Stamper as much as we did.

We love Off the Wall, an underrated gem in the Michael Jackson catalog to be sure.

Best, TP

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Is It Possible to Find Out Who Mastered the Japanese Thrillers?

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Michael Jackson Available Now

A letter we received not long ago made the point that the Japanese pressing of Thriller the owner had been listening to for years, even decades, fell well short of the mark set by the sound of the White Hot Stamper pressing he now owned.

To think, I spent all those years playing and re-playing a record that was bright and edgy, none the wiser to matrix numbers and pressing variations.

I agreed, saying that I myself learned the hard way, having wasted some of my own money on them. that Japanese pressings were almost always a crock, writing:

Most Japanese pressings cater to what a mid-fi system would need to sound good and a hi-fi system would find ruinous. They are almost always made from dubbed tapes, which are then brightened up in the mastering phase since that is the sound that appeals to the Japanese market for some reason unknown to me. Old school audio equipment — horn speakers and vintage tube electronics — would be my guess.

A fellow who saw an opening to set me straight and take me down a peg, all without having to learn how to use that pesky shift key on his computer, left the following comment in that post:

the japanese pressings were mastered by BG. the only difference being the quality of the material. nice try though, snakeoil salesman.

I immediately went to battle stations. I doubted whether Bernie Grundman has mastered any pressings for the Japanese market, but I couldn’t say for sure. It’s a question that had never come up. We ourselves had discovered a very good sounding pressing of Tusk that was mastered by Ken Perry and pressed in Japan, so I knew it was possible that the original mastering engineer could have sent metalwork to Japan for the Japanese to produce properly-mastered records for their market.

Fortunately, Discogs makes checking such things fairly easy. I went right up to the listing for Thriller and clicked on all the Japanese original pressings to see if there was any evidence to show that he had mastered them.

Bernie Grundman’s name was credited on the back cover as the mastering engineer, but I didn’t put much stock in that. I assumed that he did not master the album for their market, since that is hugely impractical. I surmised that removing his credit would have badly defaced the jacket, something I doubted the Japanese would have found acceptable. They seem to be very particular about these things.

Sure enough, here is what the stampers look like for the typical Japanese pressing that supposedly would have been mastered by BG:

There are about half a dozen original Japanese pressings for the album on Discogs and all the stamper listings look like the one above.

If you know anything about records, you know that these markings could not have been created by Bernie Grundman’s mastering operation here in the states.

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Letter of the Week – “To think I spent all those years playing a record that was bright and edgy, none the wiser to matrix numbers and pressing variations.”

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Michael Jackson Available Now

Our good customer who goes by the handle ab_ba on the web wrote to us about his experience with the White Hot Stamper pressing of Michael Jackson’s Thriller he recently acquired.

Part one of his letter can be found here.

Here he tells us about the shootout he conducted, which included a “pricey Japanese pressing” and a pressing that the forums recommended as the “holy grail.”

A few weeks later, on the eve of the closing of the return window, I shot it out against the best of my other copies. They range from the copy I grew up with, one of the few records from childhood that I held onto, to a pricey Japanese pressing in great shape (purchased long ago, when I thought Japanese pressing were where it’s at), to some copies I’ve picked up over the years because they looked to be in good shape and they were just five bucks, and a pressing that the forums told me was the “holy grail.”

None stacked up to the white hot stamper. In fact, they really weren’t even close. Here’s what I found:

The copy I grew up with is bright and edgy. To think, I spent all those years playing and re-playing a record that was bright and edgy, none the wiser to matrix numbers and pressing variations.

Some other lucky kid back then was surely listening to the copy I now own. I wonder if he ever said to himself, “wow, there’s something about this record. It sounds really special.”

The pressing with a sought-after matrix code had phenomenal bass, but the vocals were recessed. I’d so easy to be impressed with those huge drums on Billie Jean, but that alone is not enough to tell you it’s a great pressing. A lot of pressings seem to get that right.

My Japanese pressing was clear and full. But too smooth. The guitars don’t bite. Also, it fatigued me by about halfway through the side. This is energetic music. It might exhaust you, but it doesn’t have to fatigue you. This is an example of where if you don’t have a white hot stamper to compare it to, you’ll just assume your version sounds as good as it can get.

Dear ab_ba,

Most Japanese pressings cater to the sound a mid-fi system would need to sound good and a hi-fi system would find disastrous. They are almost always made from dubbed tapes, which are then brightened up in the mastering phase since that is the sound that appeals to the Japanese market for some reason unknown to me. (Old school audio equipment — horn speakers and vintage tube electronics — would be my guess.)

What you’re describing is the smeary, distorted sound you get from a second-generation and possibly even a third-generation tape.

Less bite on the guitars, more fatiguing harmonic distortion everywhere else, these records are only playable on less-than-revealing systems. I actually liked some Japanese pressings back in the 90s, and I take pride in the fact that I’ve learned a thing or two since then.

After getting my system to a higher level and playing the imports I owned head to head against good domestic and British, Dutch and German import LPs, I said goodbye to most of my Japanese pressings, including all the rock and pop ones I had purchased before I knew better. Thankfully there weren’t many of those.

Some Japanese pressings can be amazing sounding, and those I kept. You can find a short list of Japanese pressings we’ve played with potentially  (you may have noticed that word shows up a lot on this blog)– top quality sound here.

All this happened more than 30 years ago. When played head to head with good vintage pressings, it was simply no contest, the Japanese came up short time and time again. I was actually embarrassed to have them in the house. What a fool I had been to believe what I was told and not to notice how second- and third-rate they were.

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Thriller Is Proof that Mobile Fidelity Is Cutting Some Real Crap These Days

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Michael Jackson Available Now

Don’t blame the digital step for the bad sound of this pressing of Thriller. If it were all analog, you can be sure Mobile Fidelity would have screwed it up every bit as badly.

If this is the sound audiophiles are interested in, lord have mercy on their souls. They must be as lost as lost can be.

Side One:

Track One: thin and small, clear but badly lacks body and punch.

Track Two: unpleasant cymbals, no real dynamics.

Side Two:

Track One: no dynamics, bright and small.

Track Three: unpleasant and small.

Two Questions

Is this the worst version of the album ever made?

Hard to imagine it would have much competition.

Are any of these Mofi One-Step pressings any good?

I seriously doubt it. Until one comes along that doesn’t sound awful, the jury is out. Those of you looking for miracles are likely to be disappointed.

Having said that, I’m sure there are audiophiles and audiophile reviewers who like the sound of this pressing and have said so online.

Based on what we heard, how on earth are these people qualified to judge the sound of records? I guess that’s three questions.

How bad does a record have to sound before they notice? Make that four, sorry.

Bernie Was The Man

Bernie Grundman cut the original pressings of Thriller. About the nicest thing we can say about him these days is that his work at one time was excellent.

Our evidence? When you hear a killer copy of Thriller — a recording with a lot going on and one that no doubt was difficult to master — the fact that nobody else has even come close to cutting the album as well as he did all those years ago stands as proof that he will always be considered one of the greats. (If he would only stop taking Chad’s calls, the record world would be in a much better place.)

Speaking of Chad (a man who thinks he is “saving the world from bad sound“), we have now auditioned the new Aja UHQR. You can read all about it here.

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Listening in Depth to Off The Wall

More of the Music of Michael Jackson

On the better copies the multi-tracked chorus and background vocals are as breathy, rich, sweet and Tubey Magical as any pop recording we know of.

An extended top end opens up the space for the huge, dense production to occupy.

There is Midrange Magic To Die For, exceeding anything to be found on Thriller.

Side One

Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough

The first single from the album was designed to go to Number One and it certainly met all expectations in that regard.

On the properly mastered and pressed copies the vocals and percussion will be a bit brighter than those on most of the tracks that follow. The percussion is often somewhat brittle on even the best copies; it’s surely on the tape that way.

It should be big, clear and lively right out of the gate.

 Rock With You

The balancing act to the first track, Rock With You has some of the richest, smoothest, sweetest, most ANALOG sound on the entire album. There is no track on Thriller that sounds as Tubey Magical, assuming you have a top quality pressing.

As is always the case with rich and smooth sound, transparency is key. The sound should not be thick and dark, it should be both rich and clear.

Don’t Stop ‘Til You Get Enough gets hot in the higher frequencies with the volume cranked. Rock With You is just the opposite; the louder you play it the better — the more right — it sounds from top to bottom.

Working Day and Night
Get on the Floor

Side Two

Off the Wall

On the better copies the multi-tracked chorus and background vocals are as breathy, rich, sweet and Tubey Magical as any pop recording we know of. An extended top end opens up the space for the huge, dense production to occupy. There is Midrange Magic To Die For exceeding anything to be found on Thriller.

The top end at the start of a side is sometimes lacking so pay attention to see if more top end can be heard later on in the song.

Watch for smear on the horns. They are rich and smooth and on some copies their transient bite will get blurry.

Girlfriend

Girlfriend can achieve the status of a top Demo track on the better copies, no question about it. Turn it up to hear some of the biggest, tightest, most note-like bass on the album. The best copies pull off that monstrous bottom end without bloat, while maintaining some of the loveliest, most tubey rich mids on the album.

On the better copies the stage is wide and the vocals as breathy as on any track on the album. Potentially the Demo Disc track of side two.

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Letter of the Week – “I was swept up, and able to relax and enjoy a stupendous album again.”

Hot Stamper Pressings of the Music of Michael Jackson Available Now

One of our good customers wrote to us about his experience with a Hot Stamper pressing of Thriller.

Dear Tom and Fred,

I surprised myself by buying a White Hot Stamper of Thriller. It’s an album that struck me as a particular challenge to your business model. This is probably the most-pressed record in existence. A hot stamper has to be a needle in a really big haystack. And besides, how much better can they be, really? Isn’t any old copy of Thriller a pretty awesome-sounding record?

And, what’s more, why do I need an expensive copy of an album that I could happily live my entire life without ever hearing again?

But hey, I’ve returned records to you before, and you’ve never once tried to convince me to keep it, or given me any headaches about a return, so why not explore the limits of what your business can provide?

The first time I put it on, I could already tell it was special. It’s not like I was “hearing new details” or something like that. It’s that I was swept up, and able to relax and enjoy a stupendous album again. Listening to this copy of Thriller brought me as much joy as this music used to.

ab_ba

Dear ab_ba,

We’ve written about this experience before. If your current copy or some new audiophile pressing doesn’t bring you the joy of the music you remember feeling back in the day, it’s not the music’s fault. It’s the record’s. Or the stereo’s.

Aaron, you have taken your system to new heights. Your ears don’t work the way they used to. While you weren’t looking, the bar somehow, rather mysteriously, reset itself. Now it’s much, much higher.

You’re simply a lot harder to please than you used to be. You have a much better understanding of how high is up, and up is a lot higher than it used to be, whether you like it or not. Good isn’t good enough anymore.

And you will never be able to go back, even if you wanted to. You could no more go back to those days than you could become a child again.

Welcome to my world, post 2007.

That’s why we tout Beatles albums as being critically important for testing and tweaking your system. We know they have the life of The Beatles’ Music in their grooves, giving you the sound you remember falling in love with all those years ago.

If you’re not getting a thrill from your Beatles records, something is very, very wrong — precisely the reason their recorded oeuvre is a true audiophile wake up call.

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